Curse

Lordkrall · Feb 09, 2012, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Sigh.. people complain about HM being too easy. Then Anet add hard stuff in HM and people complain even more..

ACWhammy · Feb 09, 2012, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Although WoC has not been my favorite GW:Beyond content, I'm still looking forward to it. I think their best content for GW:Beyond so far was the Kieran/Miku quests because of the way their skills were set up. They were more fun to play rather than the humdrum find enemy, kill enemy, rinse, repeat of what WoC felt like.

KotCR · Feb 09, 2012, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Didn't they originally say their would be a melee hero A.I. upgrade in this update? I hope that is still the case.

If so, depending on how improved the A.I. is, it could be something to look forward too with a few more hero team builds becoming practical. Would be nice to finally have a good use for all of my Warrior heroes outside of 4-man areas.

Of course, if the update is in, it too suggests we probably will get Miku as the third Assassin hero. Just hope an extra Mesmer or Ritualist (or two, really, if they were going to be brought up to the same amounts as the other professions), is down the line somewhere, seems they are the professions with less heroes availiable and are generally some of the most useful heroes.

DiogoSilva · Feb 09, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordkrall

Sigh.. people complain about HM being too easy. Then Anet add hard stuff in HM and people complain even more..

The problem with taking 2(!) hours for a unrewarding quest, and losing at the end because the enemies spawned way too near of a NPC, goes beyond difficulty. It's simply bad game design. (Oh, Minister Cho's Estate, I'll forever remember you for this.)

Quote:

Didn't they originally say their would be a melee hero A.I. upgrade in this update? I hope that is still the case.

I was thinking about this too.

tenderpoison · Feb 09, 2012, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Like Silva said. Took me around 40 mins and all went pretty smooth until the last peasant I was supposed to rescue. The damn idiot aggroed before I could reach him (he was like 2 groups away from my location) so that's 40 mins down the drain for nothing

...not gonna go through all that pile of dung again for 2 Ministerial Commendations and 2k. I'd rather go throw rocks at a level 0 Diseased Devourer - could get me more rewards.

MisterB · Feb 09, 2012, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotCR

Didn't they originally say their would be a melee hero A.I. upgrade in this update? I hope that is still the case.

This was my first thought as well. The last update I've seen was from Joe Kimmes in October, stating that they were hoping to release that along with the final WoC update. However, he also said they want to do testing to make sure they don't make melee AI any worse, and there was no guarantee of any kind that any AI update would make it in. I really would like to see the melee AI updated. (Source)

I still have not played part 2, and I'm glad I waited, since the entire WoC expansion is being updated. WoC part 3 has to compete with my new copy of Skyward Sword that I got yesterday. I think WoC 3 will be defeated in this engagement, at least temporarily.

Mireles · Feb 09, 2012, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I am semi-excited for the new lore.... part one was blatantly boring... part 2 was a little bit of an improvement... it lived up to the quality of the lore better than part 1... I have high hopes for part 3.... I feel like they won't blatantly add more HoM based weapons this close to gw2.... but in a marketing since... adding to HoM rewards after release of gw2 will help keep gw1 breathing and sell a few more copies.... so who knows

HM WoC is great.... its the only hard mode that i can say similarly represents the difficulty of the hard mode that was first released... not this watered down crap were calling hard mode now a days... its supposed to feel impossible and make you critically think on how to beat those "broken" lay outs.... i feel HM should be played for the joy of a challenge... not increased rewards, there are plenty of exploitations/farms for that.

DiogoSilva · Feb 09, 2012, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

i feel HM should be played for the joy of a challenge...

There's no joy of challenge in monotonous, repetitive battles that last for 3 hours, in NPCs that get killed before you even reach them, in quests that are only possible to complete if you exploit bugs with minion masters, nor in quests designed for OP hero builds, which makes playing with buddies with non-OP professions less desirable.

Minister Cho's Estate "challenge" was fun until after the first or second battle. After that, it was a frustrating, never-ending exercise to your patience, where luck would determine if you would spend extra hours repeating it from zero.

Missing HB · Feb 09, 2012, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

There's no joy of challenge in monotonous, repetitive battles that last for 3 hours, in NPCs that get killed before you even reach them, in quests that are only possible to complete if you exploit bugs with minion masters, nor in quests designed for OP hero builds, which makes playing with buddies with non-OP professions less desirable.

Minister Cho's Estate "challenge" was fun until after the first or second battle. After that, it was a frustrating, never-ending exercise to your patience, where luck would determine if you would spend extra hours repeating it from zero.

That's here where's the problem, quite linked with speedclears and HM. I think everyone will agree to say that 3 hours doing the same over and over to have a big chance to fail and not get a correct reward is a joke and should not exist... But, that was quite the point of tombs of primeval kings, fissure , underworld or DoA before some skills or items ever appeared...

Everyone got this mentality( i even myself tend to have it) because they gave us facilitators and our lazyness developed...

I however agree to say that what they did with minister cho estate is too much(too hard)

Mireles · Feb 09, 2012, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

There's no joy of challenge in monotonous, repetitive battles that last for 3 hours, in NPCs that get killed before you even reach them, in quests that are only possible to complete if you exploit bugs with minion masters, nor in quests designed for OP hero builds, which makes playing with buddies with non-OP professions less desirable.

Minister Cho's Estate "challenge" was fun until after the first or second battle. After that, it was a frustrating, never-ending exercise to your patience, where luck would determine if you would spend extra hours repeating it from zero.

Yes luck is a factor in games... if your doing the same thing over and over using the same builds over and over while attempting the same thing... your doing it wrong, nor should u expect to be successful at everything your first try... adapt... yeah chos was a pain in the ass, yes it did get annoying... but if it was easy there is no since of accomplishment... luckily for us some critical thinker figured out that bug and spread the knowledge... something that doesn't happen when you give up your first few trys and qq about it...

Otherwise say out of HM... its not like it rewards something unique or anything requires you to do it... insanity and ignorance can be characterized as trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I am not understanding the "its not worth it" argument, I'm not understanding the idea just because something takes hours the odds of completion should be in your favor......if your play style is reward based... which is fine everyone should play the game as they way the see fit... if u don't think its worth it don't do it.... don't do things you don't find rewarding/fun... If they honestly added a bigger reward to the quest would it really be that less irritating to fail?

John Stumme · Feb 09, 2012, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

People will probably be happy to know that this last build is supposed to tone down the difficulty of several areas, including Minister Cho's Estate. John Stumme confirmed this two times, one in his wiki page recently, another in an interview.

So, for those who haven't tried part 1 yet, they'll probably not get through some frustating experiences like we had to, once part 3 is out. Like taking 2-3 hours to finish Minister Cho's Estate (HM quest, and vanquish), or abusing a minion master bug to make a few HM quests possible...

I might as well confirm this a third time then, just to complete the set. If people have not started the content out of fear of what it does to vanquishing, or stopped because of some over the top difficulty making things too difficult / too tedious - don't bother picking the content back up until part 3 is released. Additionally, there will be a way to revert zones back to how they were, the same as things were handled with WiK.

There have also been adjustments made to the HM content where things were too much of a slog to get through / too easy to fail due to sudden, random bad luck. I also see people have found Imperial Weapons ... not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

GhostKairi · Feb 09, 2012, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

I might as well confirm this a third time then, just to complete the set. If people have not started the content out of fear of what it does to vanquishing, or stopped because of some over the top difficulty making things too difficult / too tedious - don't bother picking the content back up until part 3 is released. Additionally, there will be a way to revert zones back to how they were, the same as things were handled with WiK.

There have also been adjustments made to the HM content where things were too much of a slog to get through / too easy to fail due to sudden, random bad luck. I also see people have found Imperial Weapons ... not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

That made me do a little scream. Didnt really like the look of Imperial Weapons, but ill give them a chance. Extra excited if theres other cool goodies

Fluffy Kittens · Feb 09, 2012, 06:12 PM // 18:12

It's a MMO game so I can't really say that I care about the story at all. However, I always support the new content, new quests. It will be fun doing those just as it was with the previous ones.

Rehnahvah Gahro · Feb 09, 2012, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

Hidden GW2-beta codes?

Just kidding, I really appreciate what you guys do with your very limited manpower.

I'm excited to jump in the game again for some hours and to see how it all ends.

Mireles · Feb 09, 2012, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

I might as well confirm this a third time then, just to complete the set. If people have not started the content out of fear of what it does to vanquishing, or stopped because of some over the top difficulty making things too difficult / too tedious - don't bother picking the content back up until part 3 is released. Additionally, there will be a way to revert zones back to how they were, the same as things were handled with WiK.

There have also been adjustments made to the HM content where things were too much of a slog to get through / too easy to fail due to sudden, random bad luck. I also see people have found Imperial Weapons ... not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

I can understand the Cho fix..... please don't water down WoC like WiK got watered down...

and is the HM version for Battle for lions arch still something were going to see?

something else? besides new costumes? very exciting...

CTCurry99 · Feb 09, 2012, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Hey John, can you confirm (or do we have to wait) to find out if these awesome new Imperial Weapons will be added to the HoM? I need just 4 more weapons to finish my Hall and I've got quite a few Req. Orders.

Yol · Feb 09, 2012, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

A way for foreign characters to enter vizunah square local quarters and local characters to enter viz square foreign quarters without having to rely on finding someone else doing the relevant quests, even if you've finished the Factions campaign?

Thinking about how some of the GW:B content has essentially been a test of GW2 mechanics, I wonder if they've managed to turn Kaineng into one large open explorable, where players can team-up and fight randomly spawning afflicted?

I'm looking forward to seeing how WoC concludes. Part 2 was a big improvement over part 1, and I hope that part 3 continues the trend.

Missing HB · Feb 09, 2012, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

Troll mode - People who finished WoC will be able to join Team Arenas and Hero Battles, that's it ..

Well, it would be original to have a new serie of miniatures( zodiac ones, as the ones missing will arrive too late).. My bets are on something linked to a new hero in the party, but i will be quite disappointed if it's ( again) costumes..

Mireles · Feb 09, 2012, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Troll mode - People who finished WoC will be able to join Team Arenas and Hero Battles, that's it ..

Well, it would be original to have a new serie of miniatures( zodiac ones, as the ones missing will arrive too late).. My bets are on something linked to a new hero in the party, but i will be quite disappointed if it's ( again) costumes..

On their blog they said they will be releasing new costumes.... I hope that is not what hes referring too. As long as they have that white AA graphical error, i will not be paying for low quality work...

I am guessing there are going to be some "royal gift" like items for miniatures to spawn from

And I can feel another hero coming into play that nobody is wants or is going to use...... hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised by something new and fresh...

Mintha Syl · Feb 09, 2012, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stumme

Additionally, there will be a way to revert zones back to how they were, the same as things were handled with WiK.

That's what I was hoping to hear!!!! The thing that kept me from doing woc with my main and other important chars was the fear to have spawns changed forever, but now that I have the official confirmation that it's not the case...yay!

Quote:

I also see people have found Imperial Weapons ... not bad, but there's still something else awesome that people have been missing.

Wow can't wait to see what it is!!! I hope it's not Miku as hero or costumes or something like that though :/